Designing Versatile Outdoor Spaces with Ponting Fitzgerald Architects Webinar

[Shane Clarke] Alright, before we start, let's kick off with a bit of a warm-up, a bit of an icebreaker before we get into the nitty-gritty, all the details and things like that. What's the oldest thing you own? I'll start while you guys contemplate. So I actually have a drawing T-square that was owned by my wife's grandfather. So it'd probably be 80, 90 years old. [Scott Squire] Yeah, wow. [Shane Clarke] And it's all timber, varnished, with gold-embossed imperial units. Doesn't work so well on a laptop, but it's handy in the garage. What about you, Scott? [Scott Squire] Me, it was 1994, and it was kind of that grunge era. I was at high school and I bought an old bike from an antique shop, and it was like a 1910 old gentleman sort of bike with the hook handlebars. I've actually still got it. So that would be, what — over 100 years old. [Shane Clarke] That's fantastic. [Scott Squire] Yeah, I used to ride it to school and think I was really kind of, you know, alternative and cool. Yeah, kind of embarrassing. But yeah, I've still got it. So that would be the oldest thing I've got. [Shane Clarke] Awesome. What about you, Phillip? What have you got? [Phillip Botting] That's tough, but I do own a spanner from a Model T Ford, which has come out of my grandfather's toolbox. It's got a date on it — I can't remember what it is, 1910 or 1914 or something of that type. And "Model T Ford" written on the other side. And I've looked it up, and it's the real deal. [Shane Clarke] And that would have come with the car or something? [Phillip Botting] It would have come in a tool kit, yeah, originally. [Shane Clarke] So very cool. Toolkits and cars, those things have changed, you know — the manuals and all that would have, you know, back in the old days. You used to be able to fix the Model T Ford, I imagine. [Phillip Botting] I don't know. Cars these days, you can fix them yourself. [Shane Clarke] No, well, the manual would have taught you how to adjust the spark plugs and that sort of stuff. [Phillip Botting] And the manuals in today's cars tell you not to drink the battery acid, so a bit of a change. [Shane Clarke] My name is Shane Clarke, the general manager here at Nuralite. Today we're talking about design versatility for outdoor spaces. So previous webinars, we've talked about the membrane — keeping the buildings waterproof. So what do we do after that? Lucky for you, I'm not the only one here today. I've got Scott Squire with me, who's the specifications manager for Nuralite. Welcome. [Scott Squire] Thank you, Shane. Lovely to be here. [Shane Clarke] Excellent. And we have Phillip Botting from Ponting Fitzgerald Architects with us. Thanks for coming. [Phillip Botting] No problem. Nice to be here. [Shane Clarke] Excellent. So you've been with them for 22 years? [Phillip Botting] Oh, some time. [Shane Clarke] Some time. Sorry, sorry — several haircuts. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Several haircuts. [Shane Clarke] That's fantastic. [Phillip Botting] I'm very lucky to have been there for so long. [Shane Clarke] Awesome. Actually, what I recall from being a junior rep, going back some years ago, is the tenure in your practice. So the key people are the same people that have been there a very long time, which is unusual — so I just wanted to identify that. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, we're lucky. We've got a good crew and we work very well together. And I think that's what makes it worth going to work every day. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, fantastic. So like I mentioned, today's webinar is about design versatility. And we're going to show you how we do that using the Nurajack Nuragrid system above the membrane — or not necessarily even using the membrane — but show you what we can do with this stuff. This webinar is set for... we've managed to trim this down to about six hours now? No, sorry — down to 30 minutes. At the end of the 30 minutes, there'll be a Q&A section. So while this is running, feel free to use the Q&A section at the bottom of the screen there, and we'll get to the questions at the end. It's worth five NZIA CPD points, so at the end of the webinar a survey will go out — you can fill in your name, etc., and we'll apply those points to you guys. Obviously, what we're going to illustrate today — I keep repeating it — is design versatility: giving people options, and a safe way to achieve it. I'm just going to throw to the first slide. This is an amazing-looking building, great render. But what this depicts is that we're focusing on the horizontal surfaces, right — so where we can use these systems. So just want to point out the areas where we could probably... [Scott Squire] Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of key areas here. So obviously the decks that you've got there — the external decks — and also the roof. You can use Nuragrid on the roof. But obviously, Phillip, this is your project, your design. [Phillip Botting] It's not strictly speaking my design, but it comes out of our office here. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, right. [Phillip Botting] So I guess the thing here that you're seeing is this kind of seamless indoor-outdoor flow. And obviously this is a render, and it doesn't show the full nitty-gritty of how buildings work — but the principle is the same. The principle of being able to run a floor right up to your joinery and run through is something architects have been doing for a long time, and it's something we really like. [Scott Squire] And I guess the grid is something that lets you do that in a more versatile way, in a less risky way. So that's where we're seeing the benefit of it — it's giving us the flexibility of what type of surface we're putting down on top of it. [Phillip Botting] For sure, yeah. [Scott Squire] It gives you that stable surface that you know is sound, structural. It interlocks — it has a dovetail edge detail. And like you say, you can then put a lot of different finishes on top: bare tiles, artificial grass, all sorts. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, certainly when we used to work with these guys only, and you had to sit the tile directly on them, then the tile itself became a structural element. [Scott Squire] And so that instantly reduces your options. [Phillip Botting] Right, for sure. [Scott Squire] Whereas if you've got your safety grid on top, then you're pretty much open to anything you like. [Phillip Botting] So that's a big plus. [Scott Squire] Yeah, definitely. That means you can look at things like natural stone, different non-structural materials. And if that tile breaks, at least you know someone's not going to go through the grid — so that safety factor is super important. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, there's a lot going on in this render — you've got oblique angles, curves, radiuses, indoor-outdoor flow, podiums, decks, and roofs. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, I guess there's more that can be done than is shown in this render as well, because this is just one type of surface. And this project is actually not going to be built — it's evolved a lot since this was rendered. And now we've got lots of different situations where this kind of solution is going to be the way to go. [Shane Clarke] So previously, how would we have detailed a sort of indoor-outdoor flow where we've got to keep the weather on one side of the building and not the other? How would we have done that? [Scott Squire] Yeah, well, over membranes, of course, we would use these kind of guys. And the problem was always how do you span between them. With timber decks it wasn't so difficult, because you could always put a substructure underneath. But with stone and things, you'd have to back it with aluminium, or with compressed fibre cement, or use very thick stone and put jacks as support midway. It always felt like you were having to put in a whole lot of extra effort, or make compromises. So being able to use that deck, as we've said, just takes away all those problems. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, and this project looks like a concrete structure. But if that was timber, and coming back to your point about adding weight — a structural tile is a lot of weight. Introducing weight on a timber structure can have an adverse effect; you might need to shore it up and make it stronger. Suddenly you've got more materials, more cost, more compromises. [Scott Squire] This is light. This is really light. [Shane Clarke] I think the next slide shows a bit more close-up. It's another render — we've got a situation here with some indoor-outdoor flow, which we all love. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, so this is another evolution of that same project. This is just one of the decks — a deck running around the inside of a courtyard. In this case it'll actually have a timber subframe below it. [Scott Squire] So the beauty of that is we can use the Nuragrid sitting on top of timber framing. It means the water drains down between the tiles, and it allows us to keep that surface flat — we don't have to have a nasty valley in the corners to deal with fall. It also means we don't need to worry about channel drains at the threshold, because it's a free-draining deck at that point. So this simplifies what wouldn't have been an impossible situation, but a far more complicated detail — whereas now it's actually quite simple. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, it makes it simple for everyone. You talked about mitring the tiles in the corner — the tiler doesn't have to do that anymore. You can simply lay them flat; we don't have to have a slope in the tiles, or cut edges on tiles, which some people don't like. It simplifies the installation and makes it a lot faster. [Scott Squire] And the fact that the grid locks together — it's not manual. There's no clip or additional fixing; it actually locks itself. And you can see the edge where you've got the vertical piece of tile — within the Nurajack system we have a vertical tile trim, so all the accessories that go with the jack, you can use with the grid too, to give you that versatility. [Phillip Botting] So detailing is really easy. [Shane Clarke] OK, so we're just going to quickly run through an animation. They say a picture says a thousand words, so rather than me talking for the next three hours, we can show a quick video that shows how the grid system goes together. Over to you, Scott — have a run through that, mate. [Scott Squire] Yeah. So we have the self-levelling Nurajacks, and the grid simply sits on top. These little doodackies are tile spacers, used anywhere you have a tile, and they can be placed pretty freely. You can see the corner with the dovetail joint. There's a pilot hole which lets you put the key through and do micro-adjustments, so you can fully adjust the substrate to give a nice flat finish. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, key thing is it's fast to install. [Scott Squire] And we're definitely hearing that from installers. This illustrates what can occur — these products are used outside, so thermal expansion and contraction happen, and the system allows for that. There's the key, just tweaking it. [Shane Clarke] So that's quite unique. [Scott Squire] That's one of the key benefits of the Nurajack system. And then, on design versatility — you can see we can accommodate a whole raft of different patterns, be it French, sleigh, or herringbone, and that could be a structural or non-structural tile. Fake grass — plenty of that on the market. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, some of it's like sandpaper, so buyer beware. [Scott Squire] But you can put fake grass or artificial turf down on the grid, and for kids you know it's safe and stable — they're not going to fall through it. So really diverse, really versatile. [Shane Clarke] Or a mixture of both. [Scott Squire] Yeah. [Shane Clarke] Nice. So I'll quickly talk to this slide — I quite like these photos. You'll see they're very different to the architectural renders and photographs you guys take; these never make the websites or glossy brochures. This is a quick flashback to a project we did, which featured in a previous webinar — the farmer's building in Taronga, where structural tiles were supposedly placed over jacks. Because it's a public space, they had all sorts of loadings happening, and a few tiles broke. There was actually an accident — someone fell through one of the tiles into the void below. It was someone else's system. We came in to the rescue, and in the space of two nights we removed this 600-square-metre outdoor paved area, installed the grid over the jacks, and laid the existing stones back on top of the grid to provide a nice, safe space. I'm not sure if you've been to this space, but we shot it live from site and had breakfast there. It's a really nice outdoor restaurant-type space. So just to illustrate the speed — in two nights, that whole area was uplifted, numbered, and relaid for a nice, safe space. [Phillip Botting] And it's interesting that you talk about the safety of it, because it used to be called the safety grid, didn't it? [Scott Squire] It was, yeah. [Phillip Botting] And I always wondered — why call it the safety grid? [Shane Clarke] But of course, it makes a lot of sense when you think about it — because these tiles are being used structurally, that suddenly becomes an issue, right? [Scott Squire] Yeah, for sure. It was originally called the safety grid, but we realised quite quickly there was a lot more it could do, so we didn't want to pigeonhole it into one feature. It's been a good evolution. [Shane Clarke] For sure. So this next little clip is another in-situ installation we have at the yard, at the office here in Auckland. Scott, you're going to run us through this little mini model. [Scott Squire] Yeah, this was taken at Nuralite HQ in Mount Wellington — come one and all, business hours, Monday to Friday. Essentially it shows a deck with Nurajack and grid, and a whole medley of different finishes on top. That's the fuzzy arm of Sam there, he's a Nurajack guru. We have a 20mm porcelain structural tile, loose-laid on the grid — so if the tile broke, no one can fall through it. You can see the tile spacers, and the edge trim, which gives you a nice way to finish; you can run a piece of tile vertically there, and there's a shim which helps level off the structural tile. The grid is pretty open, so it's very free-draining. Next in the build-up is artificial turf — there's a whole range of turf systems on the market; they can be screw-fixed to the grid, weighted with sand, or both. Again, that edge trim gives a nice way to finish the artificial grass. And the next finish here — we're seeing a lot of interest in stone, non-structural stone being used. [Phillip Botting] Of course, you can use non-structural stone now, right? [Scott Squire] 100%, yeah. This is an antique limestone from the Triassic period — potentially, we don't know, but let's say it is. It looks pretty old. That's glued — you'd glue a non-structural tile to the grid, which gives it stability. [Shane Clarke] And thinking about maintenance — over the top of a waterproofing membrane, you can see we've got a faux drain outlet, but that's an inspection hatch that can be designed into the system. That's a really important point, because this is something councils, and anybody, should be worried about — how you maintain those drains. Being able to lift tiles is something we've had to try and manage for some time, so this is an obvious way of doing it. [Scott Squire] For sure, and particularly where you're gluing the tile to the grid — you're locking out that access, but you can break a tile and deconstruct it; it's a really easy way to do it. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, because in the good old bad days, people were directly fixing tiles to membranes, right? [Scott Squire] That's right. We learnt those lessons the hard way — it didn't always work out, with that differential movement between the substrates and the tiles putting stress on the membranes. That's all come through in the building code now — we simply can't do it. [Shane Clarke] For sure — raised and removable. That's the key phrase, isn't it? [Scott Squire] That's it. Raised and removable. And I believe this might have even made it into the approved solution. [Shane Clarke] Is that correct? [Scott Squire] When you use it with our membranes, it's part of the CodeMark system. [Shane Clarke] Yeah — so that CodeMark certification means it must be accepted by councils. [Scott Squire] Yes. It's all part of the system, which is good from our perspective and yours, in that councils must accept it. But from the council's perspective it's also positive, because anything they approve with a CodeMark puts them on the safe side as far as accountability goes. [Shane Clarke] So it works both ways. I'm just going to flip to another render — another piece of amazing work from you guys. Yes, it's a render, but there's potential for the use of the system here. Again, this is unbuilt, unfortunately, but the intent was to use quite a lot of the grid and jacks around the place, because the base plane — the floor plane — was intended to feel like it floated right through the building. And there was also a desire to drive cars into the building, so the cars would have driven very carefully over the grid as well. [Scott Squire] So that kind of facilitated that happening. [Phillip Botting] Yeah. [Shane Clarke] Which is a testament to its strength, I guess. [Scott Squire] For sure. And from memory, those cars were going from outside into the house over the door threshold. We do get a lot of interest in using the grid and jack system in situations like that, but it needs to be well considered, given the unwanted inertia that could occur — you're talking about quite a different dynamic compared to a person. But reaching out to us early means we can help architects and designers work through these things. [Phillip Botting] Yeah, definitely — get involved early at the design stage so we can get the solutions sorted early on. [Shane Clarke] I'm pretty sure we were involved pretty early on this one, because there was a lot of complexity around this building — it was going to be very large, with a lot of surface area. This is definitely one where we needed a lot of expert help. [Phillip Botting] I know my colleague who did this job was in contact with Nuralite right throughout the design phase — because it's also got a big membrane roof, a big warm roof, tapered PIR. [Scott Squire] Yeah. [Phillip Botting] So this particular perspective doesn't give the full scale of the building — it's pretty sizable. [Shane Clarke] Nice. It's the money shot though, right? [Scott Squire] It's a good shot. [Phillip Botting] It looks great. Great landscape too. [Shane Clarke] So one thing we've talked about is the indoor-outdoor flow, removing the need to accommodate nibs and upstands in trafficable areas. I quite like this slide, because it simplifies it down. We've seen some fantastic renders, but this two-dimensional detail just shows the continuous membrane keeping the building structure weathertight, with your surface flat across the top by using the jacks and the grid. [Scott Squire] Yeah. And on the right-hand side, that planter box condition could be really expensive, quite deep — but it's using our 3PG green roof membrane, which has a root inhibitor. So the waterproofing integrity is maintained. The key thing is the finish — you go from that planted condition to a feathered piece between a tile and the top of the grid, so if you're standing on the grid looking down, you get quite a nice organic finish. [Shane Clarke] The soft edge, yeah. [Scott Squire] Yeah, and all the work underneath is the waterproofing, the adjustability of the jacks, and the grid for that stable surface — landing on a nib in this situation. [Shane Clarke] Yeah. I guess the only downside is no one gets to see the amazing membrane work that's gone into it. [Scott Squire] Believe it or not, that's what we aim for. It's very hard for membrane sellers to understand that we don't want to see their roofs. [Shane Clarke] So we've shown some of the features, benefits, and flexibility of the grid and jack combination. I guess everyone wonders what's next, what's new — so this next video is a bit of an insight into what's possible. [Scott Squire] Yeah, this is a new system — an evolution of the Nuragrid, the Nuragrid green roof system. This video illustrates a bulkhead trim around the perimeter, which contains the growing medium. There are little reservoirs installed between the grid — cups that catch water — plus geotextile cloth and growing medium on top. So it's a whole system. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, this is a good illustration of those reservoirs. [Scott Squire] They sustain or capture water to sustain plant growth — that could be sedums, low-coverage stuff. And the deeper the medium, the more you can go — [Shane Clarke] Fruit trees, if you wanted to. [Scott Squire] You can do that, absolutely. [Phillip Botting] Only limited by the strength of the structure, I guess. [Scott Squire] Totally, yeah. And the key thing is this is a system — it all comes from one supplier, us, and it's covered by our warranties. When used with our green roof membrane system, it forms part of a CodeMark system. [Shane Clarke] Yeah. [Scott Squire] And again, you can see there's the opportunity to get underneath it if you really had to, right? [Shane Clarke] Yeah, absolutely. [Scott Squire] Separating that membrane from all the dirty stuff. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, yeah. [Scott Squire] If you really wanted to, you could dig through and check it out. [Shane Clarke] Definitely, yeah. So in terms of drainage, getting water away from the building — which is super key — that system does it. This render is a slight variation in that you've got a warm roof, a membrane warm roof, then jack system, grid, geotextile, and ballast on top. [Scott Squire] So it gives you a different finish. Jacks on the PIR board are load-rated — tested to about 500 kg each — so we don't see any deformation in the PIR board. And we don't need a cover board, so you're saving weight, cost, and material. [Shane Clarke] I think in this project, if I remember correctly, the roof's got a slope in it, and because we're using the jacks under the grid, the roof looks flat... [Scott Squire] That's it, yeah. You can adjust the jacks — they've got a self-levelling head that can be tweaked to follow whatever design aesthetic you want. [Shane Clarke] And I'd assume you'd be able to walk on that as well, over the PIR. [Scott Squire] Definitely. Normally a jack on, say, concrete or plywood on membrane is rated to 1,000 kg, so this sort of halves the weight — but 500 kg per jack, with one at every corner and possibly one in the middle, is a lot of load capability. [Shane Clarke] Exactly, yeah. [Scott Squire] Your structure would give out before your insulation did. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, well, this kind of system is something I think we're going to see more and more of. I think it's the future of how to build flat roofs — it's got so many benefits, it's kind of a no-brainer, if you can get the build-up depth. [Scott Squire] Yeah. If you can get the build-up depth. [Shane Clarke] Yeah, right. It's a no-brainer. [Scott Squire] One of the things we like about a ballast roof like this — and it's unfortunate that you do cover the membrane and can't see it — is that there are real benefits. It doesn't see the sun, so it doesn't go through those heating and cooling cycles. [Shane Clarke] And it's going to slide into the landscape a lot more smoothly too, isn't it, having that stone finish. [Scott Squire] Definitely. And in urban environments, you're keeping water out of the stormwater system with green roofs, along with the biodiversity benefits. [Phillip Botting] But unfortunately, they're often one of the first things to be cut from a project. [Scott Squire] But we do see a lot of them coming through the pipeline being built, which is good. [Phillip Botting] That is a good point. In our experience we do see green roofs get cut at the last minute, but that doesn't mean you can't design for them. [Scott Squire] And we have seen that — you can design for a green roof, put the 3PG membrane in the specification, and at a later stage always add the green roof component. You can stay exposed for the first 15–20 years, and then add the green part later on. [Shane Clarke] All right. Well, thanks for watching our webinar on design versatility using the Nuragrid Nurajack system. We touched on the key features — the self-levelling head, getting a nice flat roof, creating that indoor-outdoor flow, and complying with council regulations. So hopefully we've covered all that. Don't forget to use the Q&A feature — we're going to skip to the Q&As very shortly, so chuck your questions in and we'll come back to those. The next time you'll see us is at the roadshow — Nuralite Group, including Nurajack and Outright, has a series of events around the country: Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, and Queenstown. Come and see us, enjoy some lovely food and refreshments on us, and we've also got some awesome guest speakers at those events. That's all through August, and there'll be a link to the event in the chat. Just before we go into the Q&As, we're going to run a quick poll — wake everybody up, get everyone's fingers working. So of the things we've spoken about today, what is the most important consideration when designing a floating trafficable surface? Choose from design, versatility, aesthetics, safety, or all of the above. We'll let that sit there for a moment while people fill it in... seems to have woken a few people up. [Scott Squire] It's great. [Shane Clarke] It's good. All right — do you want to show the results from that one?